BritishBulldog1
06-30-2007, 03:48 PM
Here comes a series of posts from Raidersmerciless.
The first one is from Tally.
I posted this in the eXtreme+ Private Admin forum as soon as I got back from the COD4 preview:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tally
Hey guys.
While out at the COD4 preview, had the opportunity of getting to know Rudedog and garratjax quite well. I spoke with Rudedog at great length about where we thought the community was going, how it was going to shape up after the release of COD4 because IW is doing such a good job of finally listening to the community base, and giving us the game WE want, that it is becoming more and more clear to people that COD4 presents a fresh start for us all.
It is a chance to foget all the old wounds that were created during COD2, for us to finally get a chance to move forward as one community together again. Standing shoulder to shoulder, and having bags of fun together.
This brought us around to discussing the division in the community that is created in large part to me and my war with the Raiders. We both agreed that the community cant take much more of it.
I put my hands up to Rudedog to the fact that I had done more than my fair share of stirring the pot. I also put my hands up to the fact that my involvment with the eXtreme+ mod is causing particular division to the community. Maybe not here (I have actually recieved a great amount of very touching PMs in support for me), but certainly over at the Raiders forums itself. And we both agreed that we cannot simply ignore the fact that, whereas they are mostly laughed at in the larger, general community itself, they are nonetheless part of the community - and that affects everyone. How could it not do so? Everyone just gets to hear about it. Stuff like E-drama has a nasty habit of travelling like wild-fire.
Why do I say this, you might ask yourself? Surely, we could just arrange some kind of boycott on them, in the same way they have attempted to do to me? Well, the reason I think this is the wrong way to go, is that its practically impossible to kick people out of the community. So, the very attempt to boycott them would itself create tension. Thus bringing the issue full circle, and back to square one. So, my thinking is that I do what I call a Gandhi: I will try to resolve the issue peacfully. And the only real way to do that is to try to arrange a truce with them.
I have arranged for Rude to call Mike_Nomad on the phone and talk to him about it. Hopefully, Nomad will agree to it, and I want to have a voice com pow-wow with him - voice com because I think I just plain come over wrong in posts. Actually speaking with me I think will help the matter, as I wont get misunderstood so easily (Rudedog told me Im completely different in real life to how i come over in posts).
Im optimistic that something can be sorted. I know from what Rude has told me that Mike called for a "cease fire" on me sometime ago. Not because he suddenly started to like me, but because he recognised the damage that the feud is causing.
However, In order for this truce to have any chance of success, I MUST resign from the Support Crew. And this because, when all is said and done, I DID fake a PM, and whereas I had what I still feel was almost overwhelming provocation, it was still very wrong no matter what the circumstances. For that reason, and that reason alone, the only honorable thing to do is go.
When I first posted the apology for doing it, straight after I told Joker I was going to step down. He told me not to, as it wouldn't solve anything. They would simply shift their focus of attack onto one of you guys (Joker himself more than likely), and that would defeat the whole object of going.
As you guys know, I tried to resign before, and it didnt make a jot of difference, and so I had to reluctantly agree with Joker: resigning wouldn't make them stop. But, I believe this time could be really different, and in fact Im going to make it a condition of my resignation that this **** against the mod site, Astoroth, or any of its Staff or users, stop completely. If it doesn't, Joker will simply reinstate me, and we will have to just go back to trying to rid the commuity of them instead, as they would have proved themselves to be unwilling to attempt a re-intergration back into the community.
Why do I think this truce will work? Well, the very real difference of attitude to community wishes and desires that IW are demonstrating with COD4, the fact that it is just such an unbelievably kick-arse game, tells me people will WANT to make it work. After all, isnt this what Raiders' have always claimed they were after all along anyway? Better communication and support from them? More "openness" to the wishes of the community?
So, I will resign. This I hope will stop the aggitation that Wizard220 feels about this site, and whats happening to "his" mod. After all, its only really my prescence on the team that gets him going so badly. He hates me. And the thought that someone he actually hates that much is messing with "his" work is just criving him crazy.
I was planning to go to COD4 with the intention of getting all the important site admins there to actually ban the Raiders throughout the community. To fight fire with fire. I had set up a summit meeting with everyone concerned, and the topic was going to be: "The Raiders: the final Solution?"
But, then, on the night just before I left for LA, the "Rise of the Resistance" site was hacked and decimated. All posts deleted. (I'll state here and now, that I have no idea "who" did it. It might have been a Raider, or it might just as easily have been someone totally unconnected to them)
My first reaction was anger. But, over the course of the night, and during the 11 hour flight out to LA, I started to feel a sense of shame - that my prescence on the RoR team had lead someone to hack the site and destroy, not only my work, but the work of all those talented individuals that make up the dev team.
Sure, its all backed up, but I thought, "why should I be a liability to them? Am I so bad that I have actually provoked someone to such an extent that they did this dasterdly deed? Have i acted so arrogently, that I have wound someone up this much?" After all, they must have been pretty upset with me to have gone to this extent and actually hacked the site (btw - Tallys-World went as well).
That made me take stock of the issue, and I concluded that I have actually done way too much stirring of my own. I am guilty of stirring up a hornets nest for my own self satisfaction, and that has clearly backfired.
All I have ever wanted to do is help people have fun with this damn game. Yet all I ever seem to do is wind people up. I dont like that idea, as I just want to have fun, and help others have fun as well. So, I have decided to try this Gandi approach.
For the sake of community harmony, this feud has to stop. And stop now. Hence I will resign (not just yet, as I have to see whether the offer of my resignation is going to be enough to placate them).
You guys are talented enough to carry on without me anyway. Its not like Im indispensable or anything (like I am to RoR). so, this just seems to me to be the best way to handle the situation (although, looking back at all the wrong ways I've handled things, this might just turn out to be just another disaster waiting to happen. Only time will tell).
Thought I'd raise the issue to:
1. Prepare you guys as to what Im planning on doing. I feel sure that most of you (if not all) will be relieved to hear it all might finally be over
2. Get your feedback. this is particularly important to me, as I need reassurance (or otherwise) that Im doing the right thing (funny thing, self doubt, it just makes you feel so pathetic and impotent). So if you think I am, please say so. I would particuarlly like to see if any of you can make this sound like the logical thing to do, as logic appeals to me so much.
Anyways. There it is. Please excuse the ramblings.
I have arranged a pow-wow with Mike, with the help of rudedog. I hope we can arrange some sort of meaningful and lasting truce.
None of you have to ever like me; I dont ever have to like any of you (although, some members of this site I do like). But we MUST learn to live together, even if that only amounts to ignoring each other. This community in-fighting will only ever destroy anything positive that IW are trying to do for this community with this new "glasnost" they are displaying.
Surely, if IW can admit their mistakes, so can we, right? And lets face it truthfully, and admit to ourselves with hands on hearts: mistakes have been made on both sides. As such, its all just so damn childish isnt it?
Just to let you know how serious I am about this, I spoke to the Admins at IWN (Daffy in LA, and FK when I got back). In the interests of such a peace being brokered, they have agreed that if some meaningful truce can be arranged betwen us, they will lift the bans in place on Mike and Wiz.
Im aware of how they feel about the place. but, whereas they dont ever have to go back there and post, the bans would be lifted, and that would stand as a symbol of the seriousness with which this attempt is being taken.
Wizard200 steps up to the plate;-
Tally -
First off I would like to thankyou for coming over here and posting. It has brought some "new" hope in cod and maybe in the future with CoD4. Thanks for taking the plunge and doing this peace offering.
Now -
Now Tally has indeed stepped up to the plate and accepted his fair share. By the looks of it he took alot of the blame. As a adult and if we ALL would have used our coding skills to think instead of fighting like we have been for what the past 2 years almost. If we all would have devoted all that time, all that work that we did in fighting but instead put it all onto mods, stuff for the game CoD would be at the top of its games.
Tally I would like to say I too accept my part in all this. I too can forgive and I too want the very best for CoD.
I know I have taken my share of cheap shots at IW, IWN and you alike. Me being a adult I should have known better than to do so. Im smart enough to know better and should have did so. I didnt, no one didnt. Tally its all a big frigging mess right now. It will take time to sort it all out, get back on the correct path and most importanly get the entire CoD community back together and working to better the game and not destroy it.
We all want the very best of CoD. To be honest after MOHAA I picked up CoD then UO. I got CoD2 as a gift from a friend. Liked them all. Yes I also like CoD2, there are some things I didnt like, but never the less I still liked it. SP side tho is awsome. Awome in all 3. But I still say the MP side needs alot of work. Never the less with out this infighting and what not I do believe the community can even over come that.
I know that things will not happen over night and it will take some time. If we all can and did devote the time in all this fighting then by gonit we can invest the exact same in fixing what we ALL BROKE. Tally all this will take all of us to do. Not just you, but me, and all. Tally if your willing then so am I.
Im not saying be the best of bud or anything but coorpoation and who knows. Maybe in the future if and after things gets going and the path is nice and paved then just maybe we might be able to chat on some things.
I will await the out come and what not from the meeting that you all will have.
But as a sign of good faith and jesture. I to want to get the peace process started and rolling. Time is short and inorder for any of us to survive what ever in the future we all have to start now.
On a personnal level Tally I dont hate you. Not as a human being. What I did hate is what you did. Since you have apologised and accepted responsibility in all this I too would like to extend the very same to you. My part in all this.
What I see a real big issue here is and I hope I am right. Its called communication.
If I was wrong in that assesment let me know. Communication barries is easy to fix. Just have to start.
I hope my post here wasnt a rambling but I just had to get some things said. Since there is a peace table communications going on I want to ask everyone to please stop. Lets all see what happens. We all by what I have read here and other forums you all want the best for CoD. And for what I have been reading on CoD4, well guys and girls it just might be that awsome game we have waited for since CoD2 release. Yea a different war front but never the less the new game we wanted.
Lets give this peace process a honest chance then see what all of us modders can do for the game. You just might be surprised at it all.
If it all works out I am going to prpose a stop to all this. if it all works out and things are done like they should then some posts here at raiders will be moved to the archives.
To be honest folks, I really dont know how much longer any of us can take the fighting thats going on. The community is split big time and needs alot of tender loving care to fix it and needs all of us to give what has started a honest chance. I say we do it, I say we do it for the community and not think of ourselves.
And please dont slam Tally, he did show up here in good faith using his real nic to post what he did. I have always given respect to others who hasnt hiding behind crap, and for what he has done after all this deserves that respect.
So here is the olive branch for all to see again. I want this to work and I am willing to do what it takes to make it work.
Mike_Nomad adds to the cause;-
I'm all for it, as most of you already knew.... Its high time this community was unified, whole and enjoying each other's company again.
finally, I join in;-
Late coming to the table, but I'm here now.
This may come as a bit of a surprise, but I don't and haven't ever hated Tally as a person. Truth is, I've spoken to him on the phone, at the beginning of this debacle and I actually liked him. I felt very betrayed by his actions since that time - kudos for stepping up.
I too share the blame for all that has happened. I have risen to carefully laid bait and also, on occassion, been the provoncateur (sp).
If Tally keeps to what he has proposed, I am all for it. It's time to bury the hatchet and to pull together. So far, CoD4 promises to be all that we knew IW were capable of and if the community now unites, it will get even better.
So here it is - I accept my part in all this and will refrain from any more mud slinging in an effort to build bridges and to move forward. I will also, like Raiders, move the posts into the archives that appear at codboards. (PM me with links to all those you think should be moved).
Tally, I've always thought and stated that you have a modding talent, never disputed that, may never have appluded it enough, but I've never dismissed it. Lets hope my sentiment is NOT displaced when I saw welcome back to the fold!
There is more at http://www.raidersmerciless.com/showthread.php?t=1529
BB1
The first one is from Tally.
I posted this in the eXtreme+ Private Admin forum as soon as I got back from the COD4 preview:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tally
Hey guys.
While out at the COD4 preview, had the opportunity of getting to know Rudedog and garratjax quite well. I spoke with Rudedog at great length about where we thought the community was going, how it was going to shape up after the release of COD4 because IW is doing such a good job of finally listening to the community base, and giving us the game WE want, that it is becoming more and more clear to people that COD4 presents a fresh start for us all.
It is a chance to foget all the old wounds that were created during COD2, for us to finally get a chance to move forward as one community together again. Standing shoulder to shoulder, and having bags of fun together.
This brought us around to discussing the division in the community that is created in large part to me and my war with the Raiders. We both agreed that the community cant take much more of it.
I put my hands up to Rudedog to the fact that I had done more than my fair share of stirring the pot. I also put my hands up to the fact that my involvment with the eXtreme+ mod is causing particular division to the community. Maybe not here (I have actually recieved a great amount of very touching PMs in support for me), but certainly over at the Raiders forums itself. And we both agreed that we cannot simply ignore the fact that, whereas they are mostly laughed at in the larger, general community itself, they are nonetheless part of the community - and that affects everyone. How could it not do so? Everyone just gets to hear about it. Stuff like E-drama has a nasty habit of travelling like wild-fire.
Why do I say this, you might ask yourself? Surely, we could just arrange some kind of boycott on them, in the same way they have attempted to do to me? Well, the reason I think this is the wrong way to go, is that its practically impossible to kick people out of the community. So, the very attempt to boycott them would itself create tension. Thus bringing the issue full circle, and back to square one. So, my thinking is that I do what I call a Gandhi: I will try to resolve the issue peacfully. And the only real way to do that is to try to arrange a truce with them.
I have arranged for Rude to call Mike_Nomad on the phone and talk to him about it. Hopefully, Nomad will agree to it, and I want to have a voice com pow-wow with him - voice com because I think I just plain come over wrong in posts. Actually speaking with me I think will help the matter, as I wont get misunderstood so easily (Rudedog told me Im completely different in real life to how i come over in posts).
Im optimistic that something can be sorted. I know from what Rude has told me that Mike called for a "cease fire" on me sometime ago. Not because he suddenly started to like me, but because he recognised the damage that the feud is causing.
However, In order for this truce to have any chance of success, I MUST resign from the Support Crew. And this because, when all is said and done, I DID fake a PM, and whereas I had what I still feel was almost overwhelming provocation, it was still very wrong no matter what the circumstances. For that reason, and that reason alone, the only honorable thing to do is go.
When I first posted the apology for doing it, straight after I told Joker I was going to step down. He told me not to, as it wouldn't solve anything. They would simply shift their focus of attack onto one of you guys (Joker himself more than likely), and that would defeat the whole object of going.
As you guys know, I tried to resign before, and it didnt make a jot of difference, and so I had to reluctantly agree with Joker: resigning wouldn't make them stop. But, I believe this time could be really different, and in fact Im going to make it a condition of my resignation that this **** against the mod site, Astoroth, or any of its Staff or users, stop completely. If it doesn't, Joker will simply reinstate me, and we will have to just go back to trying to rid the commuity of them instead, as they would have proved themselves to be unwilling to attempt a re-intergration back into the community.
Why do I think this truce will work? Well, the very real difference of attitude to community wishes and desires that IW are demonstrating with COD4, the fact that it is just such an unbelievably kick-arse game, tells me people will WANT to make it work. After all, isnt this what Raiders' have always claimed they were after all along anyway? Better communication and support from them? More "openness" to the wishes of the community?
So, I will resign. This I hope will stop the aggitation that Wizard220 feels about this site, and whats happening to "his" mod. After all, its only really my prescence on the team that gets him going so badly. He hates me. And the thought that someone he actually hates that much is messing with "his" work is just criving him crazy.
I was planning to go to COD4 with the intention of getting all the important site admins there to actually ban the Raiders throughout the community. To fight fire with fire. I had set up a summit meeting with everyone concerned, and the topic was going to be: "The Raiders: the final Solution?"
But, then, on the night just before I left for LA, the "Rise of the Resistance" site was hacked and decimated. All posts deleted. (I'll state here and now, that I have no idea "who" did it. It might have been a Raider, or it might just as easily have been someone totally unconnected to them)
My first reaction was anger. But, over the course of the night, and during the 11 hour flight out to LA, I started to feel a sense of shame - that my prescence on the RoR team had lead someone to hack the site and destroy, not only my work, but the work of all those talented individuals that make up the dev team.
Sure, its all backed up, but I thought, "why should I be a liability to them? Am I so bad that I have actually provoked someone to such an extent that they did this dasterdly deed? Have i acted so arrogently, that I have wound someone up this much?" After all, they must have been pretty upset with me to have gone to this extent and actually hacked the site (btw - Tallys-World went as well).
That made me take stock of the issue, and I concluded that I have actually done way too much stirring of my own. I am guilty of stirring up a hornets nest for my own self satisfaction, and that has clearly backfired.
All I have ever wanted to do is help people have fun with this damn game. Yet all I ever seem to do is wind people up. I dont like that idea, as I just want to have fun, and help others have fun as well. So, I have decided to try this Gandi approach.
For the sake of community harmony, this feud has to stop. And stop now. Hence I will resign (not just yet, as I have to see whether the offer of my resignation is going to be enough to placate them).
You guys are talented enough to carry on without me anyway. Its not like Im indispensable or anything (like I am to RoR). so, this just seems to me to be the best way to handle the situation (although, looking back at all the wrong ways I've handled things, this might just turn out to be just another disaster waiting to happen. Only time will tell).
Thought I'd raise the issue to:
1. Prepare you guys as to what Im planning on doing. I feel sure that most of you (if not all) will be relieved to hear it all might finally be over
2. Get your feedback. this is particularly important to me, as I need reassurance (or otherwise) that Im doing the right thing (funny thing, self doubt, it just makes you feel so pathetic and impotent). So if you think I am, please say so. I would particuarlly like to see if any of you can make this sound like the logical thing to do, as logic appeals to me so much.
Anyways. There it is. Please excuse the ramblings.
I have arranged a pow-wow with Mike, with the help of rudedog. I hope we can arrange some sort of meaningful and lasting truce.
None of you have to ever like me; I dont ever have to like any of you (although, some members of this site I do like). But we MUST learn to live together, even if that only amounts to ignoring each other. This community in-fighting will only ever destroy anything positive that IW are trying to do for this community with this new "glasnost" they are displaying.
Surely, if IW can admit their mistakes, so can we, right? And lets face it truthfully, and admit to ourselves with hands on hearts: mistakes have been made on both sides. As such, its all just so damn childish isnt it?
Just to let you know how serious I am about this, I spoke to the Admins at IWN (Daffy in LA, and FK when I got back). In the interests of such a peace being brokered, they have agreed that if some meaningful truce can be arranged betwen us, they will lift the bans in place on Mike and Wiz.
Im aware of how they feel about the place. but, whereas they dont ever have to go back there and post, the bans would be lifted, and that would stand as a symbol of the seriousness with which this attempt is being taken.
Wizard200 steps up to the plate;-
Tally -
First off I would like to thankyou for coming over here and posting. It has brought some "new" hope in cod and maybe in the future with CoD4. Thanks for taking the plunge and doing this peace offering.
Now -
Now Tally has indeed stepped up to the plate and accepted his fair share. By the looks of it he took alot of the blame. As a adult and if we ALL would have used our coding skills to think instead of fighting like we have been for what the past 2 years almost. If we all would have devoted all that time, all that work that we did in fighting but instead put it all onto mods, stuff for the game CoD would be at the top of its games.
Tally I would like to say I too accept my part in all this. I too can forgive and I too want the very best for CoD.
I know I have taken my share of cheap shots at IW, IWN and you alike. Me being a adult I should have known better than to do so. Im smart enough to know better and should have did so. I didnt, no one didnt. Tally its all a big frigging mess right now. It will take time to sort it all out, get back on the correct path and most importanly get the entire CoD community back together and working to better the game and not destroy it.
We all want the very best of CoD. To be honest after MOHAA I picked up CoD then UO. I got CoD2 as a gift from a friend. Liked them all. Yes I also like CoD2, there are some things I didnt like, but never the less I still liked it. SP side tho is awsome. Awome in all 3. But I still say the MP side needs alot of work. Never the less with out this infighting and what not I do believe the community can even over come that.
I know that things will not happen over night and it will take some time. If we all can and did devote the time in all this fighting then by gonit we can invest the exact same in fixing what we ALL BROKE. Tally all this will take all of us to do. Not just you, but me, and all. Tally if your willing then so am I.
Im not saying be the best of bud or anything but coorpoation and who knows. Maybe in the future if and after things gets going and the path is nice and paved then just maybe we might be able to chat on some things.
I will await the out come and what not from the meeting that you all will have.
But as a sign of good faith and jesture. I to want to get the peace process started and rolling. Time is short and inorder for any of us to survive what ever in the future we all have to start now.
On a personnal level Tally I dont hate you. Not as a human being. What I did hate is what you did. Since you have apologised and accepted responsibility in all this I too would like to extend the very same to you. My part in all this.
What I see a real big issue here is and I hope I am right. Its called communication.
If I was wrong in that assesment let me know. Communication barries is easy to fix. Just have to start.
I hope my post here wasnt a rambling but I just had to get some things said. Since there is a peace table communications going on I want to ask everyone to please stop. Lets all see what happens. We all by what I have read here and other forums you all want the best for CoD. And for what I have been reading on CoD4, well guys and girls it just might be that awsome game we have waited for since CoD2 release. Yea a different war front but never the less the new game we wanted.
Lets give this peace process a honest chance then see what all of us modders can do for the game. You just might be surprised at it all.
If it all works out I am going to prpose a stop to all this. if it all works out and things are done like they should then some posts here at raiders will be moved to the archives.
To be honest folks, I really dont know how much longer any of us can take the fighting thats going on. The community is split big time and needs alot of tender loving care to fix it and needs all of us to give what has started a honest chance. I say we do it, I say we do it for the community and not think of ourselves.
And please dont slam Tally, he did show up here in good faith using his real nic to post what he did. I have always given respect to others who hasnt hiding behind crap, and for what he has done after all this deserves that respect.
So here is the olive branch for all to see again. I want this to work and I am willing to do what it takes to make it work.
Mike_Nomad adds to the cause;-
I'm all for it, as most of you already knew.... Its high time this community was unified, whole and enjoying each other's company again.
finally, I join in;-
Late coming to the table, but I'm here now.
This may come as a bit of a surprise, but I don't and haven't ever hated Tally as a person. Truth is, I've spoken to him on the phone, at the beginning of this debacle and I actually liked him. I felt very betrayed by his actions since that time - kudos for stepping up.
I too share the blame for all that has happened. I have risen to carefully laid bait and also, on occassion, been the provoncateur (sp).
If Tally keeps to what he has proposed, I am all for it. It's time to bury the hatchet and to pull together. So far, CoD4 promises to be all that we knew IW were capable of and if the community now unites, it will get even better.
So here it is - I accept my part in all this and will refrain from any more mud slinging in an effort to build bridges and to move forward. I will also, like Raiders, move the posts into the archives that appear at codboards. (PM me with links to all those you think should be moved).
Tally, I've always thought and stated that you have a modding talent, never disputed that, may never have appluded it enough, but I've never dismissed it. Lets hope my sentiment is NOT displaced when I saw welcome back to the fold!
There is more at http://www.raidersmerciless.com/showthread.php?t=1529
BB1